Swing Journal [SJ]: From what I have heard, Mr. Pascoal, you heard Sadao's playing with Elis Regina at the first set on the first day of "Live Under the Sky", and quickly wrote a tune for him during the very same night. What element of his playing inspired you to write?
Hermeto Pascoal [HP]: I can't put it concretely. I was just inclined to do it by the feeling I got when I met Watanabe. Words can't explain well, but at least I feel we could communicate very well in the world of music.
SJ: If I remember correctly, Watanabe-san, it was the fourth tune in tonight's second set when you introduced it to the audience, saying it was a present from Pascoal.
Watanabe Sadao [WS]: Yeah, right. I wanted to say that, because I was really glad to have a tune from him. Maybe it was on the following day of the Brazilian night when he gave me the score at the rehearsal for tonight's set. It was a bit surprising.
HP: (Laughing) I always like to surprise musicians who play with me. It's something like making waves between musicians in a good sense....
HP: Do you remember the improvised piece we did at the end of this concert?
SJ: Of course. I think it was the best performance of tonight.
HP: It was unplanned and unknown to Watanabe and other members, even to myself! Suddenly this idea flashed on me that "Now is the time!", at the very moment. So I called him and started with just two of us.
WS: I was really surprised at the moment, 'cause he walked directly to the microphone and started to say something I couldn't understand. I spoke to myself, "What did he say?" and began to worry about it, but the translator came up to help me (laughs).
SJ: And at the moment, other members of the group were off the stage, taking a rest with some cigarettes, so they rushed back on to the stage for the unplanned performance - even one of them still having a cigarette on his mouth.
HP: I can do that because I completely trust the members of my group. Anyway, when you look back that kind of happenings, you often think it was a good performance. I'm really glad that tonight's one turned out to be very good.
WS: That sounds interesting. I like to do something unplanned with my group, too. Even if I've already decided proceedings, I'd change them suddenly. And right, it'd often have a good result.
SJ: So you two have something in common. By the way, did you discuss the setlist for tonight?
WS: I chose all of the tunes, except for the last improvisation (laughs).
HP: Firstly, I think Watanabe has creativity in every aspect. In my opinion, the present day musicians must have their own music. I mean, you have to have your own method to express various things in your head, and Watanabe has his own method to do that. So I'm completely sure that he can give a great performance whenever he play with any proficient musician. And also, I want to point out that he has an excellent conception of harmony. I think it was this element that made the last improvisation so good.
WS: I'm really happy to hear that kind of compliment from a great musician like him. I even think tonight's performance with him was a big event both in my musical life and in my whole life, indeed.
HP: No, it's not a compliment. I just said the truth.
WS: Obrigado.
SJ: And then, it's your turn, Watanabe-san. What did you think when you played with musician Pascoal?
WS: Before this date with him was settled, I'd only known him from that Miles album, you know, "Live Evil", but it was Miles' thing - Miles playing Miles music. So I thought, "he might be a samba musician, 'cause he's coming from Brazil" or something like that. But I wanted to know him better, so I got "Slaves Mass" and some other records with Flora, and they just blew me away. He's not only a great pianist, but also a great saxophonist and flutist - he's so good that I can hardly compete with him. At first I intended to write new tunes for this concert and indeed tried hard to do that, but since I'm also a player, my feel got more inclined to blow my own instruments, being inspired by his playing. At last I ended up spending much time in practicing for a good sound, and decided to pick up my existing tunes, which are part of myself after all. And more than anything else, he's so wonderful that I even wanted to stick with him for a while, spending more time around him. I just wanted to know how he's doing all those stuff: composing, arranging, playing piano, sax and other instruments - even guitar. What kind of practice is necessary for playing all of these? Well, I guess that's because he's spending every day with a very musical life. And I should emphasize that Pascoal is a very faithful man - incredibly cooperative at our rehearsal. He was kind enough to rehearse together everyday, from 2 pm to 10 pm, without any complaint.
SJ: Mr. Pascoal, you played on the "Live Evil" album, as Watanabe-san mentioned. Could you tell us how and when you managed to meet Miles and subsequently take part in his sessions?
HP: I'm afraid but I don't remember when I met Miles. Anyway, I went to his concert while I was in the U.S. It was very beautiful music. And someone introduced me to him at the backstage, and he invited me to his house. We did several sessions and one of them ended up on the record. That was only a bit of short performances, lasting for a few minutes, though.
SJ: Would you like to play with him again?
HP: Sure. He has a remarkable talent and I've already written a lot of tunes.
SJ: Could you explain what kind of place your native town Lagoa da Canoa was?
HP: I stayed there until the age of thirteen. It was deep in the mountains. There was no electricity, so you couldn't listen to the radio. All I could hear was natural sounds: songs of birds, a croak of frogs, the murmur of a brook, a rustle of leaves in the wind, and so on. And the people in the village were all living closer and had a very human communication, so I think even one of their everyday greetings has a huge influence to me.
WS: What kind of music did you play then?
HP: Only singing. Even when I took an instrument, it would be a flue made from a bamboo in the mountain, or something made from bark of a tree called babassu. All from nature, with just a small touch by human hands. And all songs were improvised.
WS: And I wonder how you managed to master so many instruments.
HP: All by self-taught. My first instrument was a bamboo flute, and the second one was called "harmonica joito bai" (sic)[*3], which has buttons to change sounds while you're blowing on it, and it sounds a bit like bandneon. My basic instruments are piano, flute and soprano sax, though.
SJ: How did you meet such a wide variety of instruments?
HP: Hmmm... In the case of soprano sax, I wanted to play it for a recording session, so I went to buy one, took it directly to the studio and just played it. Everything goes in the same way: I take them spontaneously.
SJ: How come you can do it that easy?
HP: It's not the problem of whether or not you can play it. A lot of musicians tend to study very hard, but the result is less satisfactory and doesn't match their efforts. I'm the opposite (laughs).
WS: How much do you practice your instruments these days?
HP: Not at all. Every morning I wake up and spread all the instruments on the bed, staring at them - then I pick up one of them, thinking "today's one!" and spend the whole day with it.
HP: At that time in the U.S., there was no freedom in terms of music, because a lot of musicians only worried about what kind of labels they were put on, rather than what kind of music they were playing. Thus they always played commercial things. But in my opinion, music doesn't have any label; I think music is just one universal thing and anybody can do it. Well then, speaking of the inspirations I gave them, I have one story: it was eight years ago when I recorded an album called "Hermeto" for Buddah Records, using an orchestra. For the recording session for a track called "Mourning", I had asked to prepare forty bottles of tomato juice and put them on the section for four musicians that were supposed to come to the studio. Upon their arrival, they went "What's this?" and got surprised. Without saying anything, I started blowing these bottles to play a certain melody. Then all those guys went to their own positions and started to blow, shouting "I'm better at this!" and so on, making a great fuss about it. There was Hubert Laws among them, and I told him, "You don't have to play flute today - Let's play this instrument". Well that's about it, and I think it might be one of examples of giving them inspiration, since Herbie Hancock recorded with bottles shortly after that.
WS: I'm interested in that record by Herbie. What's the title?
HP: I can't recall now, 'cause it's an old story (laughs).[*4]
WS: I see. Then on the contrary, what kind of influence did you get from jazz?
HP: For a long time, I didn't have a record player. So I'd had little chance to listen to jazz before going to the U.S. Therefore, jazz is not very influential in me and this situation rather served better for me, as I was able to create my own music.
SJ: But you've associated with a lot of jazz musicians, right?
HP: Sure, I'm still going around with them and they do have an influence on me, but it's not a musical influence. I mean, it was good for me to meet and talk with all those musicians and to get influenced by them in the human relationship.
SJ: Could you name some of those musicians?
HP: Ron Carter, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Wayne Shorter, and Gil Evans. They all have a great personality, too.
SJ: Sure they do. By the way, in the recent U.S. jazz scene, a lot of musicians are interested in Brazilian music and try to introduce Brazilian elements into their music. Also in Japan, Watanabe-san is fond of Brazilian music and play bossa nova or even "samba in Watanabe Sadao's styling". Could you tell me, Watanabe-san, what part of Brazilian music is fascinating for you?
WS: Well, it's like, you can hear "songs" in it. And their rhythms are amazing, too.
SJ: In a way, since you could hardly have that kind of things in Japan, so you're fascinated with Brazil, which has all those stuff, right?
WS: No, it's not like I can't have that in Japan. After all, I think I'm interested just because they have good music. In fact I'm going to Brazil in near future, just because Brazil seems to have a lot of good music nowadays.
HP: Exactly. As I said, the U.S. musicians put too many labels on music. When they form a group, they'd say "we play jazz" or "no, we play rock" or even "we do disco". They can't start anything without putting a label on it. That surely makes you tired. It's true of Brazilian musicians to some degree, though. In my case, however, I believe music is one universal thing, and I have to be faithful to my own heart if I want to play my own music. Brazil has a lot of musicians with a similar mindset. I guess it's this point that the U.S. musicians are interested in. In addition, it has been a common impression all over the world that the U.S. is the first place for music. But they should know it's not only the U.S. musicians that play genuine music; in other words, now is the time for us to let them realize that fact. I think it applies to Japan too. For example, before I came to Japan, I'd had a lot of opportunities to hear Japanese music, 'cause there are a lot of Japanese Brazilians out there. But they only like to hear the ones with very simple harmonies, which sound really boring to me.
WS: 'Cause they like to hear enka [*5], you know.
HP: That's right. But I couldn't believe that those were the only music found in Japan. And this time, playing with Watanabe, I finally found good tunes from Japan. The Japanese audience accept and enjoy this kind of music, too - I mean, something different from that enka thing. It's necessary to tell the U.S., or even the world, that this wonderful music can be found in Japan. Probably Watanabe is very suitable for that mission. He's a very simple man and doesn't put on airs. And since he does have a flexibility to handle anything, I believe he can accomplish that task.
SJ: From what you told us tonight, Mr. Pascoal, I can get a better understanding: you're playing what you feel in your heart at any moment, right? But the audience looked puzzled when you played a wide range of material, from the so-called free-form jazz thing to the ones rooted in what we regard as Brazilian traditionals. As your concert in this festival rapidly showed various faces of you, they couldn't see which was musician Pascoal's face.
HP: I guess so. But I think my music will remain the same in future, since my music is as colorful as colors. Therefore, my fans in Brazil have all sort of people - rich or poor, black or white, young or old - any kind of people. In other words, I'd like to give freedom to the audience, 'cause everyone is a different person with different sensitivity.
SJ: All right, this is the last question: please tell us your opinion on Flora and Airto, and Milton Nascimento. Some says Flora and Airto have a Brazilian flavor, but lack the roots. Do you have any comment on that?
HP: There's no roots in music. "Roots" means the ones growing under trees and grass, right? That's supposed to be boiled for making medicines. I mean, rather than thinking about the roots, musicians should pay attention to harmony, rhythm or melody.
SJ: Then, how about Milton Nascimento? In these days, when he makes records for A&M in the U.S., he doesn't release them in Brazil. And he records something different for Odeon in Brazil. It seems that an individual musician has two faces; one for the U.S. and the other one for Brazil. What do you think about it?
HP: That's really unfortunate. As I don't want to separate myself like that, I'm struggling in Brazil. In the case of Milton, I feel much sorrier for him, because he's a truly great musician. Well, I guess it's not his fault but due to his management or something like that. Those people are always saying, "we pay money, and you play something commercial!". I'm fighting to avoid that. Probably this problem is not limited to Brazilian musicians, and very common to musicians all over the world. But at least I can say this: if a good musician only makes music to sell, it's obvious that soon or later the money will stop rolling in, and that his music will be spoilt. Sure, I like Milton's old works much better.